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forex: what amazing eyes you have
jeneet: If victory is certain then even a coward can fight, But the real brave is the one who still dares to fight when his defeat is certain.
tami: i LOVED 'beg for mercy" i just started and finished it today, i totally enjoyed it!
Acacia Koa: Oned of my clients set me up with a neighbor last Saturday. I'd call him the day before to set up the meeting and he talked non-stop without taking a breath. I thought, "Okay, he's nervous. I'll give him a chance." We met the next day at a local restaurant. He saw me and judged me not up to his expectations in 1/2 second. We went in for tea and dessert. He never asked one question about me, but continued to talk non-stop about himself. It stung to be rejected so sumarily, but in the end
Acacia Koa: Hi. Was in the middle of your "Snow Blind" from "A Red Hot New Year" when I came to the second paragraph on page 220. "The line of fur (FIR) trees -- Aspen..." Somebody wasn't paying attention during editing. Fir are evergreen and Aspen are deciduous. Sorry to be so picky, but it stopped me in my cross-country ski tracks. Other than that, lovin' the story.
Vivianight: Hello Toni, I like your style. Would you like to exchange links? Cheers
Toni Andrews: Just wanted to say hi, and well, it's kinda wierd talking to someone who has the same name as me :) and just for the record: Toni's rule! LOL
ames: Hi Toni, just wanted to say hello and thanks for stopping by my blog. I got back from my trip-the place I went to was called Falcon Trails Resort, in Manitoba.
Dana: Hey! Thanks for commenting on my blog today. It was nice to meet you.
sparkle: Hello, hope you are having a good weekend
Mary Stella: Hi, Toni. I just tagged you at my blog.
Roxanne Swiatkowski: Thank you for the interesting blog. I came upon it on accident. I was looking for interior decorating for using brave colors and I came across a brave color! Thank you for making me laugh just through your blog. I can relate to you quite a bit. Good luck. I enjoyed this site truelly and look foward to see how things turn out for you.Roxanne
Ney-Ney: This is my first time visiting your site, and I've really enjoyed it! Have a great day.
Trista Bane: I just love your blog! You have a way with words.
Lisa Manuel: Have a very Merry Christmas in your new home!!
Nienke: Well??? I guess you don't have your computer set up yet. I'm wondering how it's going in the new place.
Lisa Manuel: Hey Toni, two thumbs up for WITCH'S KNIGHT!! Thanks for a lusty, lovable, rip-roaring Medieval tale!!
Beth Ciotta: Have a great holiday weekend with lots of pie!
Nathalie: Okay, I'm a woman on a mission here. I am trying to get everybody who blogs on bravenet to sign my "Bravenet Bloggers" map. You know bring us all together as a group :) So if I have tagged you already please disregard this one but if I haven't ....wua ha ha can you PLEASE come tag it? There's a link to it on my journal. Also you should leave your URL in your tag so people can come visit ya. Thanks Alot
Marrah Mae: Hi Toni got your link from Nienke, I love this site and the color. I wish to read one of your novels.. Good day
Nienke: Well? Day 2 of Nanowrimo - how's it going?
Nienke: Hello Toni! This is my first visit to your site and I LOVE it! I can't wait to be at the writing stage you're at (which means writing of course, but that is what my blog is for). Do you mind if I add you to my links? I'll be back!
Anne: just popping by to say hi and hope you had a nice weekend
Sami: Hi! Was out bloghopping. Nice journal!!
Eric: hi, poppin to say hello & hope u’re doing well !
JUDY D: SAD FOR ALL OF THE GULF.SAD FOR YOU, TOO. JUDY D.
Lisa Manuel: Hey Toni, I'm bloggin', I'm bloggin'! Stop by and visit me!

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Wednesday, August 13th 2008

3:09 PM

Pansters in denial

  • Mood: Smug - my book is done.

I get emails from people asking why I don’t write more blog entries about writing.  The answer is that I’m not sure how much non-writers care about writing.  But, this stuff does cross my mind from time to time.  Also, I need the opportunity to piss people off every once in a while.  Keep my hand in, as it were.

At an early writers’ meeting, when I was about a quarter of the way through my first manuscript, someone asked the guest speaker the following question:

“Are you a plotter or a panster?”

I had no idea what they were talking about.  I mean, it’s fairly easy to guess what “plotter” means.  But “panster?”   I mean, my word processing program keeps trying to change it to “punster,” so apparently I’m not the only one unfamiliar with the term.  Bill Gates doesn’t know it, either.

For the uniformed, a “plotter” is a novelist who has the entire plot of his novel outlined before he starts writing it.  A “panster” is someone who writes “by the seat of the pants”—he or she has a no more than a character or two and a basic story idea, and lets the story unfold during the writing process.

I’m a plotter.  With my business writing background, it never occurred to me to sit down and start writing a book if I didn’t have a complete outline.  Also, now that I usually write books for which I am already under contract, I’m obligated to turn in a “proposal,” which is a detailed synopsis and the first couple of chapters, in order to get paid.  And I do like to get paid!

I just finished Cry Mercy, the third book in the Mercy Hollings series, and it’s the closest I’ve ever come to a seat-of-the-pants book.  This happened because my initial proposal, which was based on an extremely detailed outline, was rejected by my publisher, who wanted me to save the proposed plot for a later installment (it will end up mostly in Book 5).    I was happy to make the change, mostly because it meant there would be later installments, but the rejection meant I had to turn in a new proposal in order to get paid.  And since I was running extremely low on cash, I threw together a new one pretty damned quickly.  It contained phrases like “after a series of events,” and “once the problem was resolved, then...”

Of course the editorial staff loved it, and told me to get started writing it.  Which I did.  Because I get paid again when the final manuscript is turned in.

I gotta tell you, writing without an outline was excruciating.  My plot was full of holes, and I had to figure out how to fill them as I went along.  Ultimately, I think it’s probably the strongest book I’ve ever written, but it took me three times as long as it should have.  And I had to do (gasp) rewrites when I would have a good idea and realize that, in order to make it work, I’d have to change something from four chapters ago.

Never, never, never, never again.

I’ve decided that you pansters that claim your process is merely different and not better or worse than that of plotters are in deep, deep denial.

In my corporate life, I used to do training on how to be organized.  I was perpetually told by disorganized people that they “didn’t have time to get organized.”  My favorite is the person with the horrendously cluttered office, in which one uses what I call “the archaeology method” to find anything – figure out how long it’s been since the last time you looked at it, then dig down to that layer.  This person invariably claims, “I know exactly where everything is in my office.”  But I never found that to be true. Not once.  These people were perpetually spending a half hour searching for something they needed in order to handle a five-minute problem, or dropping the ball on some assignment because something else got laid on top of the note telling them about it.

Seriously, I think you pansters all need to embrace the outline.    I know you’re afraid it’s going to stifle your creativity.  It’s not.  First, making the outline is PART of the creative process.  And second, filling gaping plot holes in advance will end up giving you more time in the long run.  I swear, it’s true!  And you can still rewrite and revise as much as you want. if that's what makes you (blech!) happy.  

Oh, hell, I know you’re going to do whatever you like but, as for me, I’m currently in the process of writing an outline for book 4 that will have my friends and families sending me information on support groups for obsessive anal retentives.

14 replies.

Posted by Rinda:

I wrote as a pantser for years and struggled horribly. Plotting ahead of time made everything easier and more cohesive for me. When asked if that ruins the excitement of a fresh perspective, I just say I plot exciting stuff--stuff that makes me want to jump in. :)
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 @ 5:28 PM

Posted by Carol Stephenson:

Okay, I'll play here. I'm a confirmed pantser. An outline to me is like the coffin has been nailed shut and the dirt is being tossed onto the coffin buried deep into the ground.

In order to get the next sale, I have learned to write the hated synopsis, but let me tell you, that pnce a sale is made, the thing gets tossed into the drawer, never to see the light of day again.

Even the thought of working from an outline makes me hyperventilate. Give me a character, her voice in my head, and I'm off to the races. :) Carol
Thursday, August 14th 2008 @ 1:15 AM

Posted by Carol Stephenson:

My apologies for the typo in my post. "once a sale is made". A competitor in the men's all around gymnastics made a mistake and I was cheering for the two guys from USA to move up. :) Carol
Thursday, August 14th 2008 @ 1:19 AM

Posted by Toni Andrews:

No worries, Carol. I didn't have my glasses on yet and wouldn't have seen the typo anyway. ;) And I still think you're in denial. Hmmm...maybe I should start a 12-step program for pansters. They'd have to start by admitting they're powerless over their characters...
Thursday, August 14th 2008 @ 7:58 AM

Posted by Bonnie Vanak:

Hmmm, interesting. You, anal retentive? Can't see that with that lips purse of yours. :)

I'm a hybrid mutant, a cross between a plotter and a pantser. Guess you'd call me a "plantser."

I have to submit proposals, and I find it easier to work off a synopsis when I start a book, but I deviate and roam all over. The last book I turned in 3 weeks ago was the second book in a contract and I had no proposal for it. I just told my editor, "Oh it's about an earl who's a thief and a libertine and he steals this sacred ruby to get treasure in Egypt."

My editor said, "Sounds great!"

Then I started to write it. It was agony, and yet liberating. Had NO idea where it was going or how I'd get there. Like you, Toni, it took twice as long and yet when I finished, I had a book I loved, filled with lots of grit and emotion.

But wow, I don't know if I'd want to do that again! Kinda like navigating through a minefield while running a marathon. :o
Thursday, August 14th 2008 @ 11:29 AM

Posted by FerfeLaBat:

I plot. Pantsers are either fibbing or masochists.
Thursday, August 14th 2008 @ 4:51 PM

Posted by Carol Stephenson:

You can talk about 12-step programs all you want, Toni, but I would go to my death first before writing from an outline.

You have to remember my day job; I can keep enormous amount of detail in somewhat orangized order in my brain cells. Whenever anyone starts talking about a detailed outline or shows me one, my eyes glaze over. I loved the time I went to a booksigning by Nora Roberts in my area, and she told the crowd she hated synposis so much when she was first writing for Harlequin that she would write the book first and then the outline. My kind of author. Carol
Friday, August 15th 2008 @ 12:45 AM

Posted by Carol Stephenson:

Now that the women's all-around is done...

While I never do a chapter-by-chapter outline and rarely know how scenes are going to play out when I begin a chapter, what I've always done is 'sketch' a book. I literally use an artist's pad.

In the simpler days, I would draw a triangle of the characters and write notes how they would interplay along the sides.

Now I go for columns with the character's core belief to the central theme at the top. Then I list possible things that could happen to that belief and how the character may react. Next come all sorts of wonderful lines and arrows between the columns as I map out how those other reactions could impact on a character's core belief.

So as I write, I'm braiding the characters' core beliefs to the theme and their reactions as events/people challenge and/or support those beliefs. Carol
Friday, August 15th 2008 @ 1:48 AM

Posted by Susan Peek:

Once I get by the first two chapters, I'm a plotter all the way. Often I know how a story begins and how it ends, but the only way I can move from point A to point B is by using a grid method of 20 squares--one for each chapter. I find that any holes in the dreaded sagging middle can be filled with something plotted in a previous chapter.

I guess we all have to do whatever works for us. I discovered I needed structure the first time you and I plotted. If I'm not mistaken, that was the story where I had the first and last chapters done, and the rest was a total blank. We filled it in over a four hour time span.

Sue
Friday, August 15th 2008 @ 10:56 AM

Posted by Kristin Wallace:

I do make an outline, though probably not as detailed as other writers. I know some people who have to know every detail before they start. If I have to wait until I know what's gonna happen on every page I will start to lose my enthusiasm. Maybe it's a kind of writer's ADD? before I get to an outline I do a couple things. First, I'll usually write a tagline and theme sentence and then a brief back-cover type blurb. I'll do a history of my main characters. She/he grew up here, parents did this, she moved here, blah, blah. Then I like to actually write a chapter or two. It helps me really find the character. Somewhere in there I fall in love with the character. THEN I go back and write a complete outline. And if I don't know everything at the outset I don't stress too much. Even when I do an outline I end up moving stuff around.
Friday, August 15th 2008 @ 4:43 PM

Posted by Toni Andrews:

Okay, I'm gonna fess up. While I'm doing my detailed outline, I usually write the first chapter. Just so I start to hear the characters' voices. My current WIP has four, equally weighted, POV characters. Two are introduced in the first chapter, two in the second. So I may have to write TWO chapters before I finish my charts and graphs (color coded, of course :) and I'm ready to write the synopsis. The good news is, I'll practically be done with the proposal by that time!
Friday, August 15th 2008 @ 9:15 PM

Posted by Rinda:

Ishould clarify. I always write two to three chapters then get stuck and have to plot.
Friday, August 22nd 2008 @ 9:21 AM

Posted by Mary Stella:

Nope, not in denial, not lying, and not a masochist. Plotters and pantsers both make up stuff as they go along, just at different times. Plotters do it before they write; pansters while we write. That said, I know my main characters backwards, forwards, sideways and inside out. Who they are, what they want, why they want it, what they need -- all that stuff. I start them out in situations guaranteed to challenge them and put them in conflict with each other and go from there. The scene that I write today sparks the scene I write after and then the next scene and the next scene. Sometimes I might plan a few scenes ahead, but only because something came to me while I was in the middle of writing. Flying into the mist, Jo Beverly's name for it, is a wonderful experience. I also write the first draft without going back to do much editing. This shuts down the internal critique. When I'm done, I can go back, read everything and see where I need to expand, subtract, flesh out, enhances, etc.
Monday, August 25th 2008 @ 10:57 AM

Posted by Maria:

I am a panster who has to plot. MUST have outlines and grids and notes etc.... And have a new method for color coding back story and research to ensure I don't plagarize thanks to the great and wonderful Cherry Adair!

I need the maps in order to be able to go off roading!
Thursday, September 4th 2008 @ 9:21 PM

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